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The Proven Framework by Joe Pine to Increase Your Business Valuation


The Proven Framework by Joe Pine to Increase Your Business Valuation

By , May 31, 2024
Jo Pine_quote



Joe Pine, the author of “The Experience Economy,” has been a prominent figure in the business landscape for over 25 years. His expertise lies in transforming business value through experiences, focusing on the utilisation of digital technology for customer engagement and implementing strategies for increasing business valuation. With a strong foundation in the evolution of the experience economy, Joe has authored multiple influential books, including his latest exploration of the emerging transformation economy. Joe Pine’s contributions have significantly shaped the way businesses approach customer experience design and the enhancement of customer engagement, making him an invaluable resource for those seeking to elevate their business strategies.

Joe Pine’s journey into the world of the experience economy is a captivating tale of curiosity and discovery. Stemming from his technology background at IBM, his insights into mass customisation unveiled the potential of turning goods into personalised services, ultimately birthing the concept of experiences. His exploration of authenticity and digital technology further exemplifies his commitment to unraveling the intricacies of customer engagement. Joe Pine’s narrative not only showcases the evolution of business value but also serves as an inspiring beacon for businesses seeking to elevate customer interactions. As he delves into the emergence of the transformation economy, Joe Pine’s story acts as a guiding light for those navigating the ever-changing landscape of customer experience, emphasising the profound impact of personalised, transformative encounters.

In this episode, you’ll be able to learn about:

  • Unlocking Business Value: Elevating Customer Engagement to Transform Your Business’s Worth
  • Digital Technology Power: Revolutionise Customer Engagement for Enhanced Loyalty
  • Boosting Your Business Valuation: Uncovering Winning Strategies for Sustainable Growth
  • Embracing AI for Customer Experience: Implementing Intelligent Design to Elevate Engagement
  • The Experience Economy Evolution: Understanding Trends to Stay Ahead in Business

Evolution to the Experience Economy
Have you ever wondered how businesses can shift their strategies to thrive in today’s competitive market? Joe Pine sheds light on the evolution towards the experience economy, emphasising the need for businesses to move beyond selling goods and services to providing transformative experiences. This shift not only enhances customer engagement but also creates lasting impressions that increase business valuation. By understanding this evolution, businesses can adapt their offerings to meet the demands of the modern consumer landscape. Joe Pine delves deeper into the evolution towards the experience economy by showcasing how businesses can differentiate themselves through the delivery of unique and valuable experiences. Drawing from his wealth of experience, Pine illustrates how businesses can elevate their offerings by focusing on creating immersive environments that captivate customers and drive loyalty. Through his insights, Pine provides a roadmap for businesses to evolve their business models and thrive in an experience-driven economy.

Watch the episode here:

In this episode, I’m talking to Joe Pine. Joe is the author of a fantastic business book called “The Experience Economy”. It’s about 25 years old now, and the principles that he shares in the book still hold true today. They’re very much relevant and they teach us how we can add value to our economic value, our economic offering to our client base. How do we get our clients to want to spend their time with us? How do we know what’s valuable to them? How do we evolve our offering from a good or from a commodity, to a good, to a service, to an experience? And part of that mindset that Joe talks about is we have to shift our thinking from doing our work to delivering a performance. And he talked about putting his suit on. It’s like his outfit, his costume, and for delivering a performance to the clients. I really enjoyed this conversation. It’s one of my favourite books out there. It’s called the experience economy. And I hope you enjoy the episode today with author Joe Pine.

Welcome to the podcast that’s dedicated to helping business owners to prepare for exit so you can maximise the valuation and then exit on your terms. This is the Exit Insights podcast presented by Succession Plus. I’m Darryl Bates-Brownsword, and today I really thrilled to invite Joe Pine onto the podcast. Now, there’s a bit of a backstory here, and I think that I’d just like to share that backstory with you before I introduce Joe. And that is when I first started consulting with SME business owners. Look, it’s got to be more than 20 years ago now. I’ve always been a person who’s like to devour books and materials, but I, I was a terrible reader. So I was devouring what I could because I found audible and I found this book called The Experience Economy. And that title captured my imagination. So I listened to it and it really informed and influenced my thinking on how to work with business owners to change and adapt and modify their offering to clients and how to think about what solutions or products they’re providing to the clients. And it was the book that first started me thinking from just capturing product is to what clients buy from you. And then that’s really just the starting point.

So, Joe Pine, I think the book may be 20,25 years now. Did you say that the anniversary 25. So significant. But thanks for joining me on the show. And I’m sure there’s a whole lot of thinking that’s evolved over that period. And I just thought a, it’d be great to get you on the podcast and get the voice of authority to SME business owners around how they can adapt their thinking, and especially service providers, to help that mindset shift from selling time so that they can move to selling solutions or things that really are valuable to clients and that’ll have an impact on increasing the valuation of their business. So welcome, Joe. And perhaps you can give us a little bit of a background around the book and a couple other books that you’ve authored in the meantime.

Well, the book is 25 years old right now. This Spring is when we published it in 1999, but it’s now on its third edition, the latest one coming out in 2020 with a new preview on competing for customer time, attention and money. Because that’s what you do as we shift in experience time. In 1999, we talked about the emerging, the nascent, the forthcoming experience economy. Right now we’re in the experience economy, and that means that you compete for the three currencies of the experience, time, attention and money. And The Experience is actually my second book. The ideas came, flowed out of my first book on mass customisation, which I wrote when I was still at IBM and turned my thesis at MIT into a full blog that’s about efficiently serving customers uniquely. And I discovered that mass customising a good automatically turns it into a service and asked, what does it turn its service into? Well, it turns it into an experience, into a memorable event when you design it just for an individual person. So it actually led to the experience economy after that. When we start talking, my partner and co-author, Jim Gilmore, and I started talking about The Experience Economy around the world, one of the things, questions that we increasingly got was about authenticity. You know, in a world that’s increasingly becoming a paid for experience, right? What is real and what is not. And so we, you know, people increasingly want the real from the genuine, not the fake from the phony. And that led to our next book together on authenticity, what consumers really want. And then I do have that technology background, living, working at IBM and as virtual reality and augmented reality, all these things came up. I wrote another book called Infinite Possibility creating customer value on the digital frontier. And that’s all about how you fuse the real and the virtual, using digital technology to create greater value for your economic offerings. And just now, this year, I’ve started on a new book that extends The Experience Economy. It’s actually, it’s always been part of it, but I’m always asking what’s next? And what happens when you customise an experience, when you design an experience that’s so appropriate for this particular person or company exactly the experience that they want, then you can’t help but turn into what we often call a life transforming experience, an experience that changes us in some way. And so that’s the fifth and final economic offering, the progression of economic value of transformations. So now transformations are hot on the heel of the experiences. We now have an emerging transformation economy. And that’s now what I’m writing about to be published next year.

Okay, wonderful. So let’s frame up, I guess, the proposition or the main premise of the book for the listeners who may not have read it. And I’ll have a go, and I’m sure you’ll pick up where I’ve left holes. But if we go that increasing value to the customer starts from a commodity. And if we think of iron ore as a commodity, we dig iron ore. And as an Australian, I get frustrated that we dig up all of our iron ore out of the ground and we just ship it straight to China and there’s no value add. So it’s the lowest common sort of commodity value.

Now, we ship it to China and they make it into steel. So they add value to the iron ore and they make it into steel. And steel costs a whole lot more than iron ore. And then someone might grab that piece of steel and then they’ll make a pair of scissors out of it and they’ll sell the scissors and they’ve changed the steel and they’ve may have added some chromium and got some better, higher quality steel, and they’ve now got a pair of scissors, which is a good or a tool or it’s something that’s tangible that people can use and they can do something with it. And then some enterprising people said, well, let me grab those scissors and I’ll actually perform a haircut for you and I’ll give you the haircut. And looking. You’ve got quite a healthy beard there, Jim. So, Joe, so that maybe someone will charge you to trim your beard and make you look beautiful. And they’re now adding a service to that. Good, charming. And so there’s the service type economy, using goods, and they’re adding extra value along the way, and then someone’s gone, well, yeah, a service is great, but a service can still be quite transactional. You come in, you get your hair cut, you pay like a product price. You pay you 15 pounds, $20, $100, whatever it is, to pay for your haircut. But it’s just a transaction and you’re in and out and someone will go, well, actually, why don’t I track more shines if I bring them in and I give them a bit of an experience and I make it really memorable. I’ll get people queuing up to the door and I’ll position my hairdressing salon or my barber salon so that it’s totally different. And I’ll trim you for the aging blokes like myself, your ear hairs, and tidy up my eyebrows and all the strays and what have you. And they’ll give me a head massage and they’ll make me feel good and it’ll be a totally relaxing experience. And I come out freshly groomed and looking good and my wife doesn’t recognise me. And so, yeah, that’s a great experience to come out.

And then the next and the final one that I think you’re talking about is that where there’s some sort of transformation, where, I don’t know, I come out and somehow I look ten years younger because I’ve had some Botox or something as well. And I not only look good, I had a great experience, but there’s something about my demeanor where I’m forever feeling better about myself, possibly, or it helps me lose weight or whatever it is. But now they’re the different levels. But what we need to do is go, well, if we’re thinking about those different levels of proposition, how do we match our marketing to promote those different propositions? What are my routes to market? And how do I price and package my proposition accordingly so it all matches up. And I think that’s the mindset shift that a lot of SME business owners are missing, perhaps, and that’s just my experience, Joe, but you’re the master. How far off track are we?

You nailed the haircut progression of economic value. You know, it was just perfect. We have an exercise we do in our experience economy expert certification course where you have, and sometimes when I’m working individually with clients, have them come up with what their personal progression economic value is, either as an individual, like an independent consultant, or as for your business. And it’s just very important to understand where you’ve been, where you’re heading. Right. And you start at the haircut level. Yeah. The key thing is the scissors and what is the commodities made out of? It’s iron ore. But like you said, to create much more value, the haircut. The amount of money for a pair of scissors cost for every individual haircut, right. If you amortise it out, is less, far less than a penny per haircut. But you’re then getting your 50, 20,30, $40 out of that, but you can turn it into an experience, right? So commodities to goods to services to experiences through what you talk about. There’s many companies that do that. There’s great sports clips, for example. That is all about sports, where you’re immersed in a sporting environment, like you’re in a stadium, getting your haircut done, watching the game. There’s others that use movies and entertainment for that, others that are based off of. There’s one, I think it’s called scotch and soda, right? That’s like you’re in a bar, you’re getting your hair cut in a bar, and you’re sipping your scotch, you know, while you’re doing it and so forth. So there’s many different ways to do that, but. But many can be transformational, right? Maybe at least for a time. You think about, like, you’ve got a big client meeting coming up, right? And you go the day before you go to get your haircut done. You want your beard perfect, you want your exact line on it. You want to look your best, to put your best foot forward, as we say. And that can be very transformational, encompassed with your dress, your demeanor, and your attitude of how you go in. It can be one of those elements, like, when I give a speech or work with clients, I like suiting up, not in a normal shirt. I like wearing a tie, wearing a sport coat, or even a full suit, because then it puts me in that mode of being on. Right. Right now I’m on, right. Because in the experience economy, one of the things to understand is that work is theater, right, that you’re on stage and. And you need to engage the audience, whoever it is, in front of you, with your performance. Right. That’s your individual offering that you’re doing is a performance. And then related to your other question, Darryl, about marketing, is that recognise that the experience is. Is the marketing today, the experience is the marketing. The best way to generate demand for any economic offering, whether it’s a commodity, a good, a service, or another experience. And I give you examples all the way across it. The best way to get people to buy your offering is to give them an experience. I call it a marketing experience that gets them to spend their time with you, give you their attention, and then pay up by spending money on your offering. And so you get those factors of time, attention, and money, and it’s experiences that engage you in those ways and get people to buy your particular offering.

Okay. And is that similar in the ways that a lot of people out there talking about producing content and they’re getting information out and educating people in the marketplace and sharing content, podcasts, for example, is a way for us to share our knowledge and the way we interact and engage with people.

Yes. And although if you think of it as content, right, you’re gonna think more of information that I’m sharing information. If you think of it as I’m staging an experience, right, based off what they need to learn, an educational experience, then you’re gonna approach it differently. You’re gonna make it much more engaging. Right? So content can just watch. I mean, most things when I watch videos, I’m doing something else, and I’m getting, you know, I’m only getting half of the content. But then when I hear something that marks me, my brain’s very attuned to words like experience or customisation that then all of a sudden, I stop, back up, listen, okay, this is important. Now, I get the main gist of it, but if we’re engaging enough from the very beginning and I give it my full attention, I would gain much more value out of it. And then you, as the company, would provide that more value, which would at least provide a halo effect on what you’re doing and may get people say, hey, I need to give this guy a call, or I need to look at the book that they’re offering or the educational course that they’re doing online or so forth, or whatever it might be.

So, Joe, the number of businesses that I meet, most of them, I’m going to say, are still at the service offering stage of economic value. They talk about customer experience, and they don’t really deliver an experience. They deliver the service, and they want the customer to feel good about it. In your experience, like, are there many businesses that are evolving beyond that and moving to the experience economy and then even the transformational economy? Because you’ve been working with this for 20 odd years, and from the 1990s, the world’s a different place, like the Internet’s come about, and it’s totally different from back then. And the rate and pace of change is phenomenal. But I’m still seeing, for me, most of the businesses out there are still stuck at the service delivery. Is that a reflection of what you’re seeing also?

Yeah, yeah, no, that’s absolutely the case. And when you get stuck there, they’ll recognise there’s always, like you mentioned with haircuts, right? You talk haircuts. I can tell you haircut experience, you give me any other industry, I can tell you somebody that’s doing something in that industry, that’s leading the way, or I can come up with one almost immediately off the top of my head of how you would do it. But most businesses are stuck, and what they’re stuck with in particular is commoditisation. That if you don’t shift up, goods and services are being commoditised, that people want them. In fact, they want them at the greatest possible convenience and the lowest possible price so they can spend their hard earned money and their harder earned time on the experiences that they value. So they actually, if you’re not doing anything to counteract the forces of commoditisation, your customers want you to be commoditised. They want to buy you at the lowest possible price and they want to shop around if they need to. They want you to take up as little much of their time as possible. So then they’ve got all of that extra money and extra time to spend on experiences and transformations. So there’s really this shift from goods and services to experiences and transformations and decide whether you’re going to be commoditised or you’re going to be a driver of your own value that you create for your customer.

So it’s not, what I think you’re saying is that it’s not necessarily something that every industry can do because there are just some industries or services or products, if you like, that we don’t want an experience around. We don’t value it. We just want to pay the lowest price and the lowest inconvenience possible and move on so that we can have more money for our experiences.

Yes, but companies can change our minds, right? You know, it’s, it’s SAE’s law, right, where supply creates its own demand. If you then supply an experience around something that we had never thought of as that, that we wanted to be commoditised, then you’ll find there are people that value that. And that’s particularly true with, with marketing experiences that even commodity companies use marketing experiences to create better value for the commodities and become the, you know, the least, the, the trader of first choice with companies. And so you can get out of that trap. But sometimes it requires often reconstituting what, what business you’re in, right. And that’s what I always ask clients, what business are you really in? And if you think of yourself as in the, the hair cutting business, right, well then, okay, that’s a service. But if you recognise you’re in the business of helping people have a great experience that makes them feel good about themselves as well as look good about themselves, well, now you’re in an experience in potentially a transformation business. So you may have to rethink what it is that you do. It’s the old example from Ted Levitt, a professor at Harvard in the 60’s, where people don’t want a drill, they want a hole. You can buy the good and do the drill, or you can provide the hole by the service, like you said, of cutting the hair for yourself and so forth. Or you say, well, why do people want that hole? What is it that they’re looking for? Well, maybe they’re doing a rec room. Well, let me build the entire rec room for you and get even greater value out of it. Let me then show you how to turn your rec room into an experience for your family. Right. Or for entertaining. And now I’m more into the experience business and so forth.

Gotcha. So, Joe, given that it is like you’ve really got to rethink what business you’re in or what market you’re in, do you think it’s possible for business owners to change? Or is it a case of new players coming in and going, hey, look, there’s a gap in the market here. Everyone’s delivering a service. I can deliver that service as part of a greater, more complete experience. And therefore, a new player with no baggage can create a business around that because they see the opportunity. Whereas the others who have been delivering this experience or the service rather, for many years, are stuck in habits and process and find it difficult to change. Can they change?

The answer to your question is yes, it is both. Some old companies that have been around do see the light, do recognise the opportunity, do change. But for the most part, you’re right. It is companies that come from outside that don’t have the old mindset and can really rethink what’s going on and look at it in a new way.

And it’s the new players that come in that help with the evolution of the economy or the industries, and therefore the economy.

Right? Exactly. Pushing it forward.

Yeah. So let’s imagine that we’ve got a really open minded business owner. They’re not stuck in their ways too much, and they haven’t got too much baggage, and they want to make these changes, and they have the ability, and they’ve got the team to rethink. They’re no longer giving haircuts. They’re creating a health and wellbeing experience, let’s say, whether it be legal services, accounting services, exit planning services, what have you. They’ve got the mindset change. What difference can it have to the ultimate profitability of a company by making this transition.

Well, it can have a huge difference in profitability because it enables you to create more economic value. You create more value, you can charge more for it. That’s the basic thing. One way to think about it is that the worst thing you could do as a company is to waste your customers time, even though companies do it all the time. Self checkout being one of the latest things that drive me crazy, where you have an opportunity for a direct interaction with human to human. No, let’s let you do our work for you. And so wasting time lowers the amount of money people are willing to pay for it. What services basically are is time well saved. Do something for me that I could do myself, but it would take me longer or it would be more difficult for me, or you would do it better than I do. And again, so I have more time that I can do other things. So time well saved is what services are about. And if you provide time well saved, then you can get paid for basically the functionality that you provide in your offering. But if you get to the experience level, you’re offering time well spent. Time well spent where people actually value the time they’re spending with you, then you can get a premium above the level of functionality you did because of the value of that time. And what transformations do is they provide time well invested. That every time I’m with you, every experience I have with you is a journey that pays dividends and compound interest down the line by making me a better company, a better person, whatever it might be, depending on the business that you’re in. So then you can charge even more of a premium. But ideally what you want to do is recognise that, like I asked before, what business are you really in? Then ask. Understand that you are what you charge for, right? You are what you charge for. If you charge for undifferentiated stuff, you’re in the commodities business. If you charge for tangible things, you’re in the goods business. If you charge for the activities your people perform, that’s the time and material sort of thing that you mentioned earlier, Darryl, then you’re in the service business. But when you’re in the experienced business, you do charge for time, but not your time. You charge for the customer’s time. You charge for the time they spend with you with an admission fee or a membership fee of some sort. You wouldn’t imagine going to a concert or a play or a sporting event or a theme park or a, a nightclub, immersive art exhibit, an escape room. On and on. All the different types of experiences are out there without paying admission, because it’s admission is a signal that this is an experience worth paying for. And in professional services firms, you might not think, I can’t charge admission for every interaction I have. No, but you can think about charging specifically for a diagnosis, charging for something upfront like a financial planning diagnosis, and then we can go from there. But with transformations, then time well invested, what you need to charge for is the outcomes your customers achieve. That’s what they want from you if they’re seeking a transformation, is so charge for outcomes, at least in part on top of the time and materials services that you charge for activities.

One of the ways to do that is to really get into the mindset of, hey, I’m going on stage. This is a performance to give the customer an experience, I need to give a performance that’s worth experiencing and that they want to spend that time experiencing that performance. So whether it’s..

All transformations are transformative experiences, right? That you, we only ever change the experiences that we have, and you need to create those experiences to be timed while saved and then collectively, time well invested.

Okay, so I can see some other benefits as well. So is it fair to say that an experience, a business that’s delivering an experience, is very well systemised and people are trained into how to deliver that experience as effectively? Pretty much a standardised process that is very structured?

Well, it depends. Some things you want to be systematised, right? In the experience, kind of. We actually have a framework on four different types of theater, right? The systematises sort of platform theater, right? You’re on a stage, you say your lines, right? And there are times in business when you want to do that. But in other cases, it’s street theater, where you react to what people are doing and say different things based on what they want. So it’s like you think street artists are heckled, right? So any objection in, during your sales pitch is a heckle. And you need to respond to that in a way with, with something you, you’ve got prepared, you know exactly what to say with every individual thing, and you smoothly transition based on what you’re getting. But often when you’re directly doing the work with clients, it’s more improv theater, right? Where you’ve got to be smart, you’ve got to be good on your feet, you’ve got to be able to answer people, but you’re also coming up with things that you haven’t done before. And if you like them, then they can become one of these routines or bits that you do with street theater, but you’ve got to figure things out with your client, your guest, your aspirant, depending on what business you think you’re.

In, and even improv, there’s a lot of training to be cool on your feet for a start, and practice to be cool on your feet and to be able to think under pressure. But you’ve done a lot of practice to know how to react, and you’ve got some thought around what sort of heckling you might get. So you’ll know. But you go, what’s the best way to deal with this one at this time? So we still need creative, knowledgeable, smart people, but we’re still training them in a way of doing things. And we want them to be creative. We don’t want a system that’s going to tie them down and restrict them, but we need the right level and so that they have the right tools for all occasions, by the sounds of things.

Right, right, exactly. And so there’s a lot of training and rehearsing that needs to go into it.

Yeah. And where I’m thinking with this, Joe, is that a lot of, let’s call them traditional service based businesses. One of the things that holds evaluation back is that they’re reliant on key people. So they’ll have a highly trained professional with years and years of experience in that profession. They’re selling that person and that experience, and that makes them vulnerable to that person staying or going with the business. And it just limits the valuation. Whereas businesses that are systemised and clients are coming to the business for the experience rather than coming to the business. Because Darryl or Joe or Peter, whoever it is that works in that business, then those businesses are going to be worth a whole lot more. And from an owner’s perspective, going to be easier to sell.

Right, exactly. Exactly. I mean, you’ll be more profitable, you’ll gain more revenue, you’ll have customers who will word of mouth talk about you. And if you shift from thinking of your business, and it is really a mindset, that’s why so few people, so few companies make the next leap, because they’ve got this old mindset. But you need to take on the mindset. Right. Are you in the service business, in the experience business, or in the transformation business? And when you do that, then sort of like everything else will follow. Yeah, there’s a lot of things you can learn from the book and from others and what they’re doing, but then a lot will follow just by putting that stake in the ground about what business you’re in, saying, okay, that’s the mindset that we have, and it’s got to be very customer centric, obviously, because you’re providing time well spent. It’s their time well spent, not yours. It doesn’t matter what you do unless they get the time well spent with transformations when they’re looking for outcomes, it doesn’t matter. All those activities you did in the past, unless they help yield that outcome.

So, Joe, I love it. You’ve guided us through how to change our mindset and the impact on the valuation that it’ll have to our business if we adopt this methodology, this approach to running our business and migrating from goods to service to experience and ultimately transformation. Now, a lot of the thinking, this methodology, if you like, that we’ve been talking about is years old. You’ve been working with this the last 25 years. How has it evolved? I can’t imagine it stood still. You haven’t stood still over that time. What are you working on now?

Yeah, well, so now what I’m primarily working on. Well, I should talk about the answer to the first question first, which is a lot has changed, obviously, in those 25 years. One is the rise of digital technology and how you use it, including now the use of AI. And every company needs to think about how they can incorporate AI and what they’re doing, that it will help you get tasks done right, get the sort of the activities done better than if you did themselves with less time. And then people sort of like go up a level in their skills and be able to then spend their time on the things that AI cannot do or cannot do well. It’s a great way of understanding your individual customers and clients and being able to mass customise to them. And the use of like are recording right here. Right. We wouldn’t have done this ten years ago and trying to create a podcast out of it. How can you interact with clients using such technologies and so forth? So that’s the number one thing that’s changed in the last 25 years. But there’s also been a lot that we learned about techniques and so forth about how to stage great experiences that are now scores of books. You know, our book lays out what’s going on and, and it helps in particular, we call it with creating and staging experiences that are robust, cohesive, personal, dramatic, and even transformative. But there’s a lot of books that go into details on many of those. And then it was that last one, right. Transformations was like one and a half chapters in the experience economy. Now I’m writing a full book on it, going into depth, doing a lot of research on it, trying to figure out how to really make that happen. How do you really understand what customers want, who they are, why they, why they aspire to become what they aspire, often to draw it out of them because they usually don’t know themselves and then how to go about guiding them. And interestingly, I’m actually writing it on Substack. I’ve got a Substack offering at transformation book. Yeah, transformations. Transformations with an S, transformations book dot where I have over 400 now subscribers that are getting access to the book early and being able to see not only what I write, but how I think basically about these things and be able to use it long before the book comes out next year, but also giving me feedback so the book will be better as a result. Although the primary reason I want to do it is as a catalyst. Just force me to write because people are out there paying me to write the book. So I got to get it done.

So Joe, is that a hot tip for anyone who’s engaged and inspired by the conversation we’ve had today? Subscribe to the Substack. We’ll put a link in the website and the show notes for it. And if they like the thinking that we’ve discussed on how to offer an experience to your clients so that you can charge as a way to charge those premium prices and give your clients something far more valuable than just the service or even the good. If they have been inspired by that thinking, subscribe to the Substack and they’ll get your even your most current thinking around how to apply this in modern, modern day business today in 2024?

Absolutely brilliant.

Hey, that’s. I’ll be subscribing to update my knowledge, but let’s put that out there. So Joe, I really appreciate your time in sharing your wealth of experience around the topic of, I’m going to call it. Yeah, it’s pure product expertise, if product is what clients buy from us. So I know what I’m taking, but what’s the one key message that you really want listeners to take away from our conversation today?

Well, it’s probably pretty obvious. I’ve said at least three or four times, determine what business you are really in and recognise the opportunity. Don’t just say what I’m in now, but what are those opportunities out there? How could I shift up this progression of economic value to go beyond goods and services to experiences and transformations and that will create allow you to create much more economic value, that will allow you to get a much better valuation on what it is. I did actually have. I just didn’t think of that before. I did actually have one private company, a fairly decent sized one, hire me a couple years ago just to increase their valuation. And I helped them go through these frameworks. I helped develop brand new frameworks for them to be able to increase their valuation and get a better price in the market when they went public.

Well, case in point, that’s a good enough reason to do it. And the listeners of this podcast, that’s exactly what they’re looking for. Joe Pine, thanks for sharing your exit insights with us today.

Appreciate it. Darryl, thank you.


About Joseph Pine

Joe Pine is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike. He is cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP, a thinking studio dedicated to helping businesses conceive and design new ways of adding value to their economic offerings.

In December 2019 Mr. Pine and his partner James H. Gilmore re-released in hardcover The Experience Economy: Competing for Customer Time, Attention, and Money featuring an all-new Preview to their best-selling 1999 book The Experience Economy: Work Is Theatre & Every Business a Stage. The book demonstrates how goods and services re no longer enough: what companies must offer today are experiences – memorable events that engage each customer in an inherently personal way. It further shows that in today’s Experience Economy companies now compete against the world for the time, attention, and money of individual customers. The Experience Economy has been published in fifteen languages and was twice named on of the 100 business books of all time.

Mr. Pine also co-wrote Infinite Possibility: Creating Customer Value on the Digital Frontier with Mr. Kim C. Korn, Authenticity: What Consumers Really want with Mr. Gilmore, and in 1993 published his first book, the award-winning Mass Customiozation: The New Frontier in Business Competition. His latest article in the Harvard business Review is ” The “New You” Business (January – February 2022), coauthored with Lance Bettencourt, Jim Gilmore, and Dave Norton.

Mr. Pine consults with numerous companies around the world, helping them embrace the ideas and frameworks he writes about, develop concepts for creating more economic value, and see those concepts become reality. In his speaking and teaching activities, Mr. Pine has addressed the World economic Forum, the original TED conference, and the Consumer Electronics Show. today he is a Part-Time Lecturer in Northeastern University’s School of Business.

If you would like to learn more about how to start preparing your business, then you can get more information here: It All Begins with Insights.

Darryl Bates-Brownsword

Darryl Bates-Brownsword

CEO | Succession Plus UK

Darryl is a dynamic, driven Business Mentor and Coach with over 20 years of experience and passion for creating successful outcomes for founder-led businesses. He is a great connector, team builder, problem solver, and inspirer – showing the way through complexity to simplicity.

He has built 2 international multi-million turnover businesses; one now operating in 16 countries. His quick and analytical approach cuts through to the core issues quickly and identifying the context. He challenges the status quo and gets consistent, repeatable and reliable business results.

Originating in Australia, Darryl’s first career was as an Engineer in the Power Industry. Building businesses bought him to the UK in 2003 where he quickly developed a reputation for combining systems thinking with great creativity to get results in challenging situations.

A keen competitive cyclist, he also has a B Eng (Mech) Engineering and an MBA.